Historic GT & Touring cars mod

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

hey guys !

I got some troubles with my g25 !
Yesterday i was playing nfss just for fun ..suddenly during a race the wheel went all the way to the left and stayed there.
It seemed like it lost it's centerpoint, so i went back to windows, resetting pc and controller...
nothing helps ! Even in rfactor, gtr evo and all the mods it's doing the same , losing it center (more to the left) and when on track losing ffb and all sence of direction!
So even when i turn the wheel it doens't respond in game.
I think that it's a sensor or something which is broken , dirty or something like that.
Anyone here with same problems or read or heard about such troubles?!
Today i reinstalled a new driver etc , also didn't help.
well it happened after hours of perfect gaming , during a race, so i'm sure it's something in the hardware..

DAMN! *pretty dissapointed*..and no i won't buy a g27! hehe don't have the money for it..although it seems like this g25 just ran until the g27 came out hahah (sarcastic laughter..logitech bastards!)
If this one is truely broken, i must say the lifespan is damn short! my old microsoft controller still works as also the red momo , besides some wear and tear these ones are rock-solid!

ps: forces used went never above the 100% , where the redmomo allways coped well with 150% power..i just can't believe this g25 feels so sturdy and is allready broken?!

Wkr

Niels_at_home · Physics Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 423

There is a 2 year warranty on the G25.. They tend to be fairly easy to replace broken ones

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

aha! nice to know indeed , but i'm not sure for how long i have the wheel.
I'll try through the shop tommorrow. Hope they accept without the box or evidence of payment...

Wkr

Jules327 · Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject:

Not 100% sure, but it sounds like a dirty or worn out potentiometer to me, if your wheel isn't still covered by warrenty then take it apart and have a look, You don't have much to lose and some cleaning gunk or a replacement "pot" will set you back a fistfull of small change.... Wink

_________________
"New car smell is the result of a collection of toxic gases & chemicals trapped inside a flimsy plastic box"

"Old car smell is the intoxicating aroma of antique wood & fine leather sealed inside a sturdy steel container"

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

hey guys!
I've opened it up...and discovered some nasty errors in the design..but you can work on it.
I'll soon post some of the pics i took during the process.
I can say though , it's definately best not really using the wheel to the 900°
the contact between the wheel and the slider is just a small plastic toothed-wheel.
Being this small it puts alot of pressure and when on the ends of the sliders it puts so much pressure the slider gets pushed upwards on the other end.
This causes lots of other things to break aswell.
But i'll keep it short for now and post the pics soon, they'll speak for themselves.

Wkr,
Lc

Jules327 · Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject:

Can You Fix it?
_________________
"New car smell is the result of a collection of toxic gases & chemicals trapped inside a flimsy plastic box"

"Old car smell is the intoxicating aroma of antique wood & fine leather sealed inside a sturdy steel container"

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

hehe well , i fixed these problems, but got a shortcut by another flaw in this design , as soon as i uploaded the puictures i'll explain how it happened and why...

Wkr

Jules327 · Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:31 am Post subject:

I've been meaning to pull mine apart for months, to remove the clamping brackets but keep putting it off as it's a bit of a pain 'cause all the wireing runs through my frame. I'm interested to see your pics of the internals in question, as I would like to try to streanghten any parts that I can to avoid ending up in the same situation!

I'm planning on getting a G-27 and I'll be pulling that apart as soon as I get it, to see if they are actually fixing these problems for the extra dough they're charging for it! I am quite happy to pay more for it if the money buys a more robust design...... but if all I'm getting is more buttons and some LEDs that I don't even want then..... (muffled frustrated swearing noises combined with the sound of someone banging their head against a brick wall 'cause they know that there is sweet F.A. they can do about it!)

If Logitech had released a new wheel by itself, instead of, a range of "face-lifted" gameing devices then I"d be more confident, to me though it just looks like a game of grab the cash!
_________________
"New car smell is the result of a collection of toxic gases & chemicals trapped inside a flimsy plastic box"

"Old car smell is the intoxicating aroma of antique wood & fine leather sealed inside a sturdy steel container"

Rantam · Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject:

I'm not very impressed so far of the G27, but I've only read about it, so..

But may be one of these Fanatec porsche wheels (not the cheapest one) would be a good replacement if my G25 dies someday.

But stills working very good after, errr, 3 years? Think so. My G25 was definitively a good election Smile

Regards
_________________
"I hope that while so many people are out smelling the flowers, someone is taking the time to plant some." Herbert Rappaport - http://www.rantam.com

Jules327 · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject:

While we're on the subject of Logitechs design flaws here's one they prepared earlier!

I dug this piece of sim-racing history out of the bottom of my toybox, it's from my 1st raceframe and about a decade old.

Real state of the art stuff this, 4 buttons, 2 flappy paddles, 2 pedals and a whopping 180 degs of rotatation! still a hoot to drive though, well for an hour at least! after that the FFB would disapear.............

As you can see in the second pic the air vent is (LOL) underneath the wheel and would be hard up against any desk you attach it to severly limiting the airflow! The answer was to build a cooler simalar to those laptop cooling devices you can get now, with the fans blowing air into the vent(hence all the double sided tape). A bit like fitting a bonnet scoop under your sump if you get my drift....

As you can see by the serial port lead hanging out the side I was modding wheels back then too, I added a clutch pedal and sequential shifter to it. The only game at that time that supported a clutch was Viper! but it was massive fun to play!
_________________
"New car smell is the result of a collection of toxic gases & chemicals trapped inside a flimsy plastic box"

"Old car smell is the intoxicating aroma of antique wood & fine leather sealed inside a sturdy steel container"

Rantam · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject:

Look that! as you say, it's really a piece of simracing history Smile

Before the G25 I got a logitech momo. Was a good wheel for the money, but the G25 is much better, that's clear.

But that momo was not my only wheel. Despite that was my first bought wheel i made another one by myself to play Grand Prix I, using the electronics of a joystick as base.

Worked quite good and the wheel itself was more like a F1 wheel than a rounded steering wheel. The only problem was that i made it with wood and never used leather or other material to make it more comfortable. So it felt like Flintstones car's steering wheel or something similar Very Happy

Regards

Regards
_________________
"I hope that while so many people are out smelling the flowers, someone is taking the time to plant some." Herbert Rappaport - http://www.rantam.com

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

Well to be honest , I MISS MY G25! Very Happy

It was a great wheel compared to my momo..unfortunately i just had a bad factory-build i guess!

I'll put some pics as illustration within an hour or so...

So , i opened it up , then to find loads of plastic-wear under the wheel !
At that point i definately knew something was terribly wrong...
Even the plastic surrounding the wheel-bearing was worn very hard and was almost nomore! It is cracked, chipped and broken in several area's .
So we opened it up even further..then to find the logitech-employee had assembled it wrong! The 'stopblock' on the end of the wheel , which fits into the slider-sockets , was put in behind the sockets it supposed to sit in!
On one end it passed the socket and on the other it slid off , probably because of low-contact.
This making the wheel turning on the very ends of the slider , which on his terms then got disformed by this.

So i started to fix it all..done it perfectly , just until....!
Because i was testting it being open , i forgot to plug the power out while reassembling the control-unit...making a shortcut on it .
So it works perfect now, except for the wheel itself , which is shortcutted and good for the bin !
Actually also this shortcut could have been prevented by a more decent finish on logitech's design , though i should have been more carefull. (pics will illustrate)

Now ok , i could have looked after a warranty..which was actually over . But then again , i doubt logitech would admit such errors . Now that i've seen what's wrong with it , it's offcourse my duty to post it , but i actually don't blame logitech for 100%
Knowing what you get for the money , knowing the wheel worked very good etcetc aswell as knowing i used it loads more then my prevous wheels..i just know it was worth it!
Being in the historx testing-sessions, several leagues and servers i've been racing on , going on the latest 'green-hell' like a madman , time after time after time.

Yes , the g25 actually was worth buying and i actually wouldn't hesitate on buying the g27 . Although for now it's a financial blow and i'll be stuck wih my momo for a while.
Also knowing the g25 actually got almost 100€ more expensive here(!) , it shall be the g27 . Actually pretty stupid of logitech , because i would have bought the g25 again if the prices were right.

What i can say though is that using the 900° full-out will eventually give this same problem in deforming the slider and puts stress on the bearing-housing.
I'll explain with the photo's later , but i calculated on the g25 it only can handle about 850-875° without stressing the slider !

Maybe when upgrading to the g27 this g25 shifter can come in handy. When i do so , i'll give grassy my g25-pedals probably ;)
Although i'm not sure for the time being where to go from here .
G27 is expensive, but still the same base-structure..maybe i'll be thinking about buying some more expensive hardware in the far future.

I'll soon post the pics..i'm rescaling them at the moment.

Wkr,
Lc

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

opening it up :

The fact that the slider got pushed harder on one end , cause the bearing-housing to crack .
Not a real problem though in the workings of the wheel , it probably looks worse then the problems it can cause.

this ring normally holds the bearing well inside . Luckily the bearing is placed with thick grease, so will not release as quick. But i'm sure this isn't normal!
the slider opening up :

Small contact wheel/slider = deforming the slider :

Notice at the arrow , how much the slider gets pushed upwards . Also the metal spring-tensioner also isn't strong enough to hold it.

slider going too far , power-connection not protected !
This caused my story-ending shortcut! I actually didn't notice this until it was too late.
Though , logitech isn't going free on this..Why perfectly finishing and isolating all the wires ..except for the most important power-wires!?

Look how much the slider was deformed! I put this in the oven to warm up and manually reformed it before refitting.

This is how it should be , the 'block' should fit in the slider-socket , so this can hold it all in place
This also helps to push the slider down on the outer-ends . Just too bad this was done badly on mine and caused all my problems .

And finally how the slider should actually fit on the outer ends. No spacing out, no lifting of the slider ..a perfect fit!
When you look closely , you can see the old wear-marks where it used to stop the slider a few mm's further.

My conclusion on this? Logitech has done some fine engineering on these wheels , must be said.
A perfect fit etc on the allready hard used parts, nicely done!
But! They should do a better assembly-control aswell as looking into finishing of the product much better.
When i look back , i damn the ones not isolating the power-supply. If this was done, i would have probably enjoyed my g25 for another few years !

Offcourse the best thing to do is NOT opening it when you suspect troubles , although mine was out of garantee .
When you do openen it up for some reason , think about all the things i've posted here and do it very carefully.
Also don't forget to keep the silicon-grease closeby , you probably will wipe it off, because it will make working easier.

Also when i think about it, my g25 allways made a different noise when it calibrated itself towards the left side..probably just missing out the socket.
I never questioned it , because it was normal to me.
So be sure your g25 makes the same noises going from lock to lock.
If not , ask your dealership for advice.

I've done all i can to find the problem and solve it..just too bad i made a mistake with the power. Could have been a great fix though.
I'm sure not many g25's out there will ever experience these problems. Pity mine didn't survive.

Wkr,
Lc

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

@ Jules327 : i almost forgot but...you can get those clamps off fairly easy once inside.

-take the wheel of , unclip the buttons etc.
-take of the iron plating in the colomn etc (so completely dismantle the wheel-assembly)
-unbolt the small outer grey screws on the back...(in the deeper holes)
-now you can lift off the upper plastic (nose/hood)
-just unbolt the clamp-tensioners and take of the extra spacecaps on the clamps.
-now you can just pull them out of their sockets.

Fairly easy and you can't do any harm here .
Just be sure you unplugged all cables and leave the wheel for a few mins so no power is on it anymore .
Once inside , try to fix the isolation of the power-cables aswell!
You can do this by unsoldering them and put on a isolation-rubber before resoldering. Or you can use a simple tape to wind them in it. Choice is yours ;)

Another improvement could be that spring-tensioner...although then you'll need to unbolt the complete control-unit and take of the steering-motors by unbolting the black screws on the back. Takes some time, but it's fairly easy when you know your stuff .
Actually this assembly is so straightforward i can hardly believe you can do anything wrong (except for that power-connection)

Wkr

Rantam · Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:00 am Post subject:

Good pics and info LC! Hope next time your will will survive more time.

Regards
_________________
"I hope that while so many people are out smelling the flowers, someone is taking the time to plant some." Herbert Rappaport - http://www.rantam.com

Jules327 · Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:01 am Post subject:

Thanks for sharing the pics & info, Man what a shame 'bout the short circuit (I'd be black'n'blue from kicking myself) your advice has been very usefull! I'll be opening mine up next week, kinda interested to see what I'll find!
_________________
"New car smell is the result of a collection of toxic gases & chemicals trapped inside a flimsy plastic box"

"Old car smell is the intoxicating aroma of antique wood & fine leather sealed inside a sturdy steel container"

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

yeah it truely is a shame..i was just a bit too happy when starting to put it all back together.
I still am pissed at myself for sure , knowing so much about pc's etc..and then to forget step n°1..ppff i should slap myself so hard indeed Embarassed

Must say though it's a sloppy piece of soldering right there by logitech . I just pulled the wire to reconnect to the controlunit . And at that moment , bending that cable, those 2 solderings hit eachother.
The plugs on the controlunit though are well isolated and even with power on wouldn't have given problems.

But then again, i now showed you guys what to do AND what NOT to do!
The best of 2 worlds , hahaha

Glad you guys like it ;)

ps: maybe it's just in time for logitech to have seen this and maybe taken action..i sure hope they atleast have their 'manual' solderings well isolated on the G27. But as for design of the product inside and out it's a topper! absolutely zero tolerance on the parts , great job.

Wkr

Jules327 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject:

I guess they'd say that people aren't "supposed" to be poking around inside, even though they know a lot do! I voided my warranty the first week I had the G-25, so I'm happy to wear the costs if I blow something up! I havent used mine in months and I'll be hanging to take it for a spin, but first those brackets need to come off and after reading this, I'm kinda putting that off till last! Wink

_________________
"New car smell is the result of a collection of toxic gases & chemicals trapped inside a flimsy plastic box"

"Old car smell is the intoxicating aroma of antique wood & fine leather sealed inside a sturdy steel container"

looneycooney · Team member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 593

hehe very true Wink

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